Mealworms

[Quigs]

I was curious if anyone here raises and breeds their own mealworms or super worms?

I have read several article on doing so, but wonder if any here had first hand experience.

Thanks,
Quigs

[sputnik]

I did for a while, but mine kept dieing... cause the animals kept eating them. Was just easier to order a few thousand for me.

[AussieDragons]

I've bred mealworms for about 3 years. Here's our method -

Put about 5000 mealworms in a plastic drawer (rubbermade or sterilite three drawer setup works great). Add oat bran for bedding and food. Add carrots or potatoes every week or so for food and moisture. Keep the entire unit at 80 degrees or more. Leave it be. Don't take stuff out. Let mealworms pupate, and turn into beetles. Let beetles lay eggs (usually in the potatoes and carrots). Let eggs hatch. Let mealworms grow! Pick mealworms, cover in chocolate, and put on top of icecream. Oh. wait a minute...

[Quigs]

Thanks Mark that rocks!

I have a couple questions if you don't mind.

I have read several places about the drawer system. How big are these drawers and how many mealies can be started in each?

Do you ever move the beetles? Or just run the whole cycle in one spot?

I presume it's correct in saying the beetles can't fly or crawl the plastic walls to get out?

Does the "colony" ever get out of control? I imagine you start off with 1000 mealies and say low end, you end up with 200 females beetles. Those 200 lay 500 eggs each and so on so forth...

I've also read the beetles don't live very long, so how does maintenance go? Change potato and carrot and throw out the dead beetles?

Thank again, I'm sure I will have more questions but that what I came up with off the top of my head.

I have pretty much come to the conclusion they do best with neglect, more or less.

Quigs

[AussieDragons]

I have read several places about the drawer system. How big are these drawers and how many mealies can be started in each?


Here's a picture of our setup (mealworm bins on the left):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v23/bergerm/Random/mealworms2005.jpg

The drawers are 7" x 16" x 11" each. We put approx. 5000 mealworms in each bin to get them started, and fill the bin about 1/4 to 1/3 full of oat bran (If your local PetSmart sells horse products, you can get 50 lb bags of oat bran for $12).

Do you ever move the beetles? Or just run the whole cycle in one spot?


We used to take the beetles out, and put them in a new bin. But if is pointless... You can let the entire cycle take place in the same bin. The beetles don't eat the mealworms, and the mealworms don't eat the beetles. I don't think the beetles or worms eat the eggs either - or if they do, there's MORE than enough eggs anyway.

I presume it's correct in saying the beetles can't fly or crawl the plastic walls to get out?


These beetles are dumb as rocks. They don't fly, don't climb, and don't escape. They just eat constantly, and lay eggs. We usually have a few hundred beetles at a time in each drawer, and several hundred thousand microscopic mealworms at any given time. It takes a few months to really get the bins going good, and you need to try to NOT steal large mealworms out of the bins until you have a fair amount of beetles.

They also don't chew through plastic, like Superworms do!

Does the "colony" ever get out of control? I imagine you start off with 1000 mealies and say low end, you end up with 200 females beetles. Those 200 lay 500 eggs each and so on so forth...


We're feeding mealworms to somewhere around 40 geckos, 12 bearded dragons, 2 aussie water dragons, 3 hedgehogs, and a few other misc animals, so we've never even come close to having an overrun drawer. More often than not, we'll have to replenish our drawers every 4-6 months, because we will just about feed them dry (or get sick of picking little mealworms).

I've also read the beetles don't live very long, so how does maintenance go? Change potato and carrot and throw out the dead beetles?

If you're feeding them properly, you won't be cleaning much out of the bins. Ours will eat an entire carrot in about 2-3 days. They usually gut a potato half in just a few days as well, and leave just the skin behind (won't eat the skin for some reason). They'll also eat bread, meat products, dog food, and a bunch of other stuff. But we've gone to using just food products that they will completely devour, to avoid having to clean out excess junk.

We do pick out dead beetles every now and then - but honestly, it is easier to just wait until you do a "bin overhaul", which needs to be done every 4-6 months, or you'll start having allergy problems to the mealworm sheds and poop.

The other part of the cleaning is a LOT of mealworm "husks". They shed as they grow, and the sheds will come to the top of the bin. We've found the easiest way to clean husks out of the drawer is to take an entire drawer outside, and blow the sheds off the top.

If you start throwing out leftover carrots and potatoes, you'll probably be throwing out thousands of eggs, so we don't really recommend doing that! I've never seen a carrot mold in our bins, but potatoes will mold in time.

You may want to look at the Vitamin A content of what you're feeding your mealworms as well... Many lizards are prone to Vitamin A toxicity, and if you feed a bunch of Vitamin A loaded mealworms to your animals... Well, you can figure it out.

Hit me up with more questions if you've got them - I'm here all day :wink:

[Quigs]

Thanks Mark, you've been a big help.

I just bought a Sterilite 4 drawer stack, to start this off. All 4 drawers are equal size to one another.

My question now is this...

The drawers I bought are not as deep as what you use. The individual drawer dimensions are as follows...

Length: 17"
Width: 12"
Height: 5"

Seems that the length and width are very similiar to yours perhaps a little bigger. But does the 5" depth pose a problem for not being deep enough?

Another concern, I discovered was that these drawers slope up and out slightly at the front, begining at 2" off the bottom.

Now it's said that the beetles can't climb the smooth plastic sides to escape, I would assume that meaning a drawer side that goes straight up at a 90 degree angle. Or can the beetles not climb on a smooth plastic period?

My intial though on this as far as a remendy, we could put a thin coat of vaseline or something similiar at a certain level in the drawer to discourage any attempt at escape (at least at the front where the box slopes outward).

Any thoughts?

Sorry, I'm not trying to make this harder than it has to be, but I also don't really care to have 100's or even 1000's of beetles roaming my house!

Thanks again, I really appreciate everything!

Quigs

[Haroldo]

Well, I'm no expert but I just made some containers for my crickets today and they don't seem to get all the way to the top, but they do climb pretty far up. Keep in mind that the containers are about 1.5' high. I know beetles can't climb glass, but if the plastic even has a little bit of texture to it, you might have escapees. Just my 2 cents

[AussieDragons]

Seems that the length and width are very similiar to yours perhaps a little bigger. But does the 5" depth pose a problem for not being deep enough?

Shouldn't be a problem. We've had the bedding in our drawers within a few inches of the top, and never had any problems at all.

Now it's said that the beetles can't climb the smooth plastic sides to escape, I would assume that meaning a drawer side that goes straight up at a 90 degree angle. Or can the beetles not climb on a smooth plastic period?

I've never seen the beetles climb, at all, on any surface. I can't guarantee you that you'll NEVER have an escapee, but we haven't.

Really, I think you'll be just fine. A few years ago (when we just had a few lizards), we were breeding mealworms in little drawers that were just 2" tall. And even that worked great.


Can you post a picture of the drawers you bought (that sounds REALLY bad)?

[Quigs]

I didn't forget about ya, Mark! I just hadn't had a chance to snap a couple shots until today.

I was looking for a ruler to use as a comparison but somehow I have misplaced it.

First shot is the whole deal and with the added dimensions from my prior post you should be able to get relative size. (remember the drawers are only 5" deep, looks can be deceiving in this pic)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Quigs/odd%20and%20ends/100_0263.jpg

Second shot here, I was trying to show you the slight incline at the front on each box. However, I wasn't very successful depicting what I was after.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Quigs/odd%20and%20ends/100_0267.jpg

You can see the clearish 2" band at the bottom of each drawer in both pics. That is completely vertical! Above the clear band where there drawer turns a bit opaque is when the incline starts.

Quigs

[AussieDragons]

Sorry about the delayed response. So many eggs, so little time!

I'd have to say those bins should work just fine. I think i've seen them at Wal-Mart.

[kentuckyliving04]

I started a meal worm bed the only thing is the worms arent moving to much. I put them in a bed of oats and 1/2 apple 1/2 potato. Hoping to start my own. I put in a 100 meal worms. How long does it take for the worms to mature to feeders?

[Kiote9]

I was trying to let the mealworms reproduce, but it is easier to just buy them as I need them.

100 isn't really very many, but it only takes a couple of weeks or them to start to pupate. My problem is that they grow and the larger ones are easy to catch, so they don't get to pupate. THAT is a bonus of keeping mealies warm! They get bigger.

The beetles are wonderful for being bugs. They don't bite or run away or climb or anything.

[Otter_23]

I tried with 1000 large meal worms. I used wheat bran mixed with whole wheat flour and baby food rice. The potatos mold within two days and have made the whole bed clumping. Many of the worms turned dark black and mushy (I'm assuming they are dead) I have some turning into beetles but they just lay their kicking their feet every once in awhile and a couple of them seemed to have died. The temp is around 75 degrees. Is flour and the rice retain moisture? I took the lids off the plastic 12 quart (I have them spread out in 3) and that seems to have helped some but it isn't looking good. Should I just start over and get just oat bran and throw carrots in there with them?

[LLAP101202]

I used to have a crocodile gecko and if he missed a mealworm or 2 they would dig down in the substrate and breed themselves...I was using the echo earth stuff....I dont know what they were eating but let me tell you I was always finding bettles in there and then new mealworms...and at the time I didnt know that the mealworms came from bettles (yeah I know I was way stupid about some stuff...thank god I learned ALOT from you guys)...but man did they multiply rather quickly....If I eaver get back to anything that eats them I will try this info for breeding them myself on a larger scale.

[Otter_23]

I went to fleet farm to get some oat bran. They had no idea what I was talking about. Does it go by another name or is there some where else I should look?

[Cool Evil Liz]

Walmart has oat bran as well as health food stores

[Otter_23]

Thanks Liz (Now I know why they call you Cool Liz, still working on figuring out the evil part)

[LLAP101202]

I can not believe a feed and grain store didnt know what BRAN is......I mean if they deal with horses at all thats like a MAJOR staple for people with horses to have ON HAND is BRAN & OIL its used to treat colic....That just amazes me that they dont know what bran is.....WOW.

[Otter_23]

The guy I talked to was like we have whole oat. I said is that the same as bran? He didn't know. I didn't feel like waiting an hour while he checked out the calf feed, ostrich food etc... I am guessing it is not the same as whole oat but more of a pellet. I don't know does it go by something other than bran on the labels?

[LLAP101202]

Try leaving out the word OAT....I think its actually Wheat...but if you just say you need some BRAN they should know what you are talking about....its a light flakey consistancy about a few small steps up from being FLOUR....usually used with oil for horses with colic..but pretty sure its actually wheat.

[Otter_23]

Thanks I'll try that.

[Quigs]

Heh, late on this too. Sorry, I'm getting caught back up.

Ask for NON-medicated chicken mash. Works the same, it's cheap and if they don't know what that is...they ain't in the feed business!

Q

[Damnitbonnie]

I went to fleet farm to get some oat bran. They had no idea what I was talking about. Does it go by another name or is there some where else I should look?

Health food store. Oat or wheat bran. I get 2 pounds of wheat bran for about $3. I agree you should have been able to get the wheat bran from Fleet. Larger bags so better deal. It's more of a soft flake than a pellet.

I started with 1,000. We were selling some and using some but I don't have many dragons that like them.
The colony went crazy. I give a container full to Toni and Kari every month at the Taylor show. I use them as a back up food in case a shipment gets lost or sent out late.

I never keep a lid on it. The lid holds in moisture and makes a mess. I had a clumping problem when using baby cereal so I stopped. I have a cricket/roach gutload that I use. They never try to get out.

Now the superworms are more challenging so I've never tried to breed those.

[Otter_23]

I started with a 1000 as well and the babies are just starting to grow. Seemed to take a long time thought (about a month and a half). I think part of the problem was keeping the top on, and using baby cereal. I'll just stick with the oat bran and what Mark suggested by using carrots instead of potatos. It looks like the babies are the first wave as I still have about 5 beetles wandering around so hopefully I'll start seeing more and more in the next few weeks. Can't wait until they are big enough to feed the dragons and adult cresteds.

[aimee]

If you can find a place that sells red oats (we got a bag at PetSmart in the horse section), it makes a great bedding and they will eat it some.