Mice Genetics

[RKB1985]

Ok, how is it that when this guy (white & black fella here)...

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05423.jpg

knocks up an all-white mouse the babies are either pure black or grey? Like these here:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05425.jpg

But when bred to this lady...

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05426.jpg

some are plain, some spotted, etc. etc. etc, but none are pure black or grey?

I'm so lost.....:noidea:

[BalloonzForU]

Be cause those black and WT (wild type) are dom to the blotchy cute ones.

That is one sweet lookin satin mom you have there. She's very purrty!!!

[FloridaHogs]

How is this for wierd genetics
dad
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/100_0625b.jpg

Mom is either the balck one, the brown with white face, or the white and brown one
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/100_0627b.jpg

And I end up with this little cream colored ruby eyed baby....
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b214/FloridaHogs/100_0630b.jpg

[benzoman]

Them'z for pets right? Cause Kaley, my nine year old daughter has a little problem with anything eating things that aren't bugs, or white or pink rodents...:noidea:
She'll be one of them 500 cat ladies only with 10,000 mice....LMAO

[AneesasMuse]

Such CUTE meecers!! I was going to elaborate on the genetics, but Fe beat me to it! (I have genetics on muh brains these days) :D

[FloridaHogs]

How do you explain my ruby eyed baby

[RKB1985]

Be cause those black and WT (wild type) are dom to the blotchy cute ones.

That is one sweet lookin satin mom you have there. She's very purrty!!!

So are the black ones I have now 'het blotchy cute'? Whereas I breed my blotchy male back to the Black ones, would they be 1/2 Black, 1/2 blotchy cute? Or is the only way to get the blotchies is to breed blotchy x blotchy?

And what happens if I breed a Black to a White? Is one dominant over the other?

I don't even know why I care. I'm basically doing this for fun since I don't have any more mice eaters. :icon_eek:

[RKB1985]

How do you explain my ruby eyed baby

Glad I'm not the only one lost. :icon_pidu:

[BalloonzForU]

How do you explain my ruby eyed baby

They both had to be het for the ocular albino (red eyes normal color fur, this can be found in most rodents, hamsters, guiena pigs, rats, etc)

So are the black ones I have now 'het blotchy cute'? Whereas I breed my blotchy male back to the Black ones, would they be 1/2 Black, 1/2 blotchy cute? Or is the only way to get the blotchies is to breed blotchy x blotchy?

And what happens if I breed a Black to a White? Is one dominant over the other?

I don't even know why I care. I'm basically doing this for fun since I don't have any more mice eaters. :icon_eek:

Providing that the blotchy cuties are simple recessive then yes. I don't know mice morphs, just that the blacks and WT are dom to everything else.

[MrsWTownsend]

I hope this doesn't rub everyone the wrong way but if the adults being bred are just feeders does this mean they and their babies are going to grow up to have baseball sized tumors from massively inbred genetics?

[FloridaHogs]

Well, I only have one male to several females, and they are not related.

[MrsWTownsend]

The reason I ask is because I got a couple of female feeders to breed and ended up keeping them (they were cute and not interested in breeding, ever) and they both developed large golf ball sized tumors.

I bought live rat feeders once and one of the rats had babies in the bag on the way home, so I kept her to raise up the pups. She was really sweet and very smart; both her and the one baby of hers that I kept to keep her company grew (literally) softball sized tumors.

[FloridaHogs]

Well, mine were fancy mice sold as pets, not feeders....

[snowliz]

At the shop we get fancy mice and white feeders from the same place. The fancy pets have grown tumors and been less healthy then the white ones. Go figure....

[RKB1985]

Hmmm never had one develop a tumor and didn't know that it was a common problem. I do however make it a point to bring new blood in.

[Bigheinzer]

I hope this doesn't rub everyone the wrong way but if the adults being bred are just feeders does this mean they and their babies are going to grow up to have baseball sized tumors from massively inbred genetics?

tumors are part of a balanced diet :violin:

[AneesasMuse]

Tumors are a big part of ratties' lives ..and I would assume, mice, too... unfortunately. Every shop I know of that carries both pets and feeders.. they come from the same stock (inbred stock, at that) and the more colorful ones are the ones that get chosen for "pets".

The folks that I know who actually have Ratteries for pet quality, sound genetics, temperament and health, etc. ...those are the TRUE "pet quality" meece and ratties. (and they have VERY strict guidelines for pedigrees.. yes, there really are pedigrees for rats... and show quality, etc.) These folks breed for tumor free, longer living rats ..amongst other preferred qualities like, temperament and so on.

Anyhow... I digress... since the majority here is about food and nutritional value of the rodent, I won't continue. :D But, there is a whole 'nuther side to rats and mice.



Btw, my Taffy is suffering from a Pituitary tumor right now. She's lost most of her motor skills.. cannot hold her own food.. topples over frequently... and so on. I hand feed her and clean her up. She's still alert and knows who I am, so I am leaving it to "the big guy" ...as to when and how she leaves me.

[CornCrazy]

LOL...I've started getting ALL kinds of variations in my mice. There are times when it is REALLY hard to feed them to the snakes. I've got chinchillas, Merle's, rex's and a bunch of others that randomly popped up in my collection. I'll try to get some good pics of them if you are interested in seeing them.

[markface]

for the most part , rats and mice (domestic ones) are so inbred to begin with that they can carry the genetics for a whole mess of different things(including unfortunately tumers). as aminah said there are a few people out there who work hard to keep healthy genetic lines going , but you wont generally see them in your average pet shop , or from anyone who produces feeders . you can get all kinds of weird looking rodents , but most of them are decendents of a very small original group of either rats or mice that were originally domesticated for lab use .

[Chandler Rep]

We attempt to breed out any of the ones that develop tumors....mice or rats....don't do much with any of the fancy mice though just the white ones....but we are trying to move towards the darker colored rats just because most of the picky feeders love them but not the white ones....

[CornCrazy]

We attempt to breed out any of the ones that develop tumors....mice or rats....don't do much with any of the fancy mice though just the white ones....but we are trying to move towards the darker colored rats just because most of the picky feeders love them but not the white ones....I also try to cull out any I can with tumors so they hopefully they won't pass on that gene. Unfortunately, as someone mentioned before, rodents are prone to having tumors. It's almost unavoidable.

Back to the question of genetics...I thought that only the wild type (those brown agouti ones) were dominant over the other colors. I thought that black mice would only be produced if both parents are het for that gene. Whenever I have bred a black mouse to a white mouse, I've gotten all agouti colored mice. :noidea:

[CornCrazy]

I took a bunch of mouse pics today so I thought I'd post a link in case anyone wants to see them!

http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/

[RKB1985]

Very nice pics Terri.. You definately have some cool ones.

Jenea, did you buy or make that white-nosed brown one? That one's my favorite so far, along with Terri's dark multi-tone one (17 of 24).

[KiKi]

gorgeous looking mice, when we bred our black male to our white female we only got black and grey babies

[FloridaHogs]

I bought the dark brown and white female already pregnant, and that was one of her babies. The was also a black one that had a really cool white zig zag, but one of my mean females killed it.

[MrsWTownsend]

Well, sorry everyone~ I didn't mean to hijack the thread or be a complete buzz kill, it's just something I was curious about from my own experiences.

The last thing I'll say about the tumors is that I do know someone who bought a rat from the pet dept. that did also develope a large tumor. The mice and rats I kept didn't start to grow them until well into their adult lives. They did not show any signs of ill health prior to that.

On a brighter and much more positive note, your little meese are cuties!

[RKB1985]

Well, sorry everyone~ I didn't mean to hijack the thread or be a complete buzz kill, it's just something I was curious about from my own experiences.


Uhhh what's the apology for? Didn't really see it as hijacking considering this is all about genetics. Fortunately, I haven't had any of my rodents develop tumors, consequently, I had no idea tumors were a problem in the rodent world. So I've found the latter part of this thread to be rather helpful as I've learned quite a bit of important info. :popcorn:

[CornCrazy]

Uhhh what's the apology for? Didn't really see it as hijacking considering this is all about genetics. Fortunately, I haven't had any of my rodents develop tumors, consequently, I had no idea tumors were a problem in the rodent world. So I've found the latter part of this thread to be rather helpful as I've learned quite a bit of important info. :popcorn:I agree...there was no apology needed. Tumors are part of having rodents. Some of them are more genetically predisposed to get tumors, though. I believe that some lab strains were bred to develop tumors so testing could be done on them (someone please correct me if I am wrong). I am sure some of those mice made it out to the general public.

Ricky, you are lucky if you've not had any develop tumors! I've had a few develop them. They get culled out very quickly!

[RKB1985]

Well here's some of the newest additions.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05451.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05452.jpg

This reminded me of the one of Jenea's that I thought was awesome. Not a very good picture though.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05454.jpg

[Chandler Rep]

no kidding man take a shot of alcohol and get rid of those shakes....jeeeze.....lol

Hey do you want any new blood in africans when we come up to visit Ken....

[CornCrazy]

Very cute! I took some more pics of some of the newest babies mine produced. There are some real cuties! I'll hve to resize the pics and then I'll post them.

Also, I had to cull a WHOLE colony of adults yesterday! :( I was cleaning cages and I noticed that the babies tails had been chewed off...some a little and some a lot! As I picked up the babies to transfer to a holding tank so I could clean, I found out that someone had also chewed off some of their legs, toes, etc. I have one baby that has no back legs! I took some pictures (not all good since the babies were so squirmy). Some of the chewed off parts look like they might be infected also, so some of the babies might not make it. :( I refuse to keep mice that do that to their babies!

[snowliz]

I had a mouse eat her whole litter and then a snake ate her....
I don't keep them ones either.

[RKB1985]

Yea Terri, that Satin one I have pictured at the top just ate her whole litter again. I chalked the last one up to being her first time, but not anymore. Wish Chris lived nearby so his daughter could taker her as a pet.

no kidding man take a shot of alcohol and get rid of those shakes....jeeeze.....lol

Hey do you want any new blood in africans when we come up to visit Ken....

Sure if you want to bring some up. Then I can send some new blood back down with you too. :icon_pidu:

[CornCrazy]

I am going to show a few more pics. I will labeling them as to what I think they might be. I do not know my mouse genetics very well, however, so if I mislabel one, please let me know! I will not be posting all of the pics I took, so if anyone is interested in seeing the rest, you can visit my photobucket album: http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/

Merle:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/brokenmarkmerle.jpg

Black and White Baby (Frizzy?):
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/BWmouse2.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/BWMouse.jpg

Cinnamon Satin:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/cinnamonsatin.jpg

Cream and White:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/crm-whtmice.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/crm-whtmouse.jpg
The last one is adorable. I wish I could get a good picture of his face. he has a cream colored mask!

Red-Eyed Dove:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/RedEyeDove.jpg

Golden? Satin-Rex?
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/pileofbabies.jpg
I am referring to the baby at the top left (with his face hidden).
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/goldenmouse.jpg
There is a butterscotch baby in the "pile of babies" picture.

[CornCrazy]

Now for some pics of the poor mutilated babies :(

Chewed Tails:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/chewedtail2.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/chewedtail.jpg

Chewed Feet and Legs:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/chewedfoot2.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/chewedfoot.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/chewedfeet3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/chewedfeet2.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/chewedfeet.jpg

[RKB1985]

Some pretty cool meecers you got there Terri. Merle's (his name right?) the one I really liked. You want to ship him to me? :D

That's to bad about those little ones. Feel so bad looking at them.

[CornCrazy]

Thanks! And Merle is not his name. :) I think his color pattern is considered Merle, or it may be a broken-marked chinchilla. I am not sure. And I have no idea how to ship mice! If I make it to Tinley, I can bring a few cool looking ones with me for people to fight over, I guess. Too bad you can't talk Ken into swinging by this area after he's on his way home from killing pigs! I think he has to go through the Nashville area.

I feel really bad for the mutilated babies, too. I am giving them a chance to try to grow up and then I may adopt them out if they do OK. They deserve to be pets after what they've been through...especially the ones that have had their legs chewed off!

[RKB1985]

Thought you might of named him after Mr. Haggard. Anyways he's Merle to me now. lol

[MrsWTownsend]

I think the black & white sort of looks like it has a mohawk.

Question~ in the pile of babies pic, is that a combination of litters all in one pile?

[CornCrazy]

I think the black & white sort of looks like it has a mohawk.

Question~ in the pile of babies pic, is that a combination of litters all in one pile?I thought the little black and white mouse was very cute. I love the little splotch of white on his face!

Yes, my mouse mommys seem to share responsibility for the babies. I almost always find them in one huge pile instead of each mom taking care of her own babies. Therefore, I have NO idea which mom is the little golden baby's mom. :(

[CornCrazy]

A few new pictures...

A dove rex?
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/DoveRexMouse.jpg

golden rex?
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/GoldenRexMouse.jpg

A couple of group pics:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/Mice-2.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/2008/Mice2-2.jpg

[FloridaHogs]

Is that a dog bisicut?

[CornCrazy]

Is that a dog bisicut?Yes it is! They love them for occasional treats.

[RKB1985]

Cute pics.

Yes it is! They love them for occasional treats.

Very interesting..

[Kagome100]

oh man thats some nice rex mice there i would love to get some of them lol i used to have a few rex mice a few years ago.

[CornCrazy]

oh man thats some nice rex mice there i would love to get some of them lol i used to have a few rex mice a few years ago.Thanks! If you are ever up in the Nashville area, let me know! I can hook you up with some of them!

[Kagome100]

Thanks! If you are ever up in the Nashville area, let me know! I can hook you up with some of them!

Hmmmm i dont know when i will be but if i am i'll let you know :)

[RKB1985]

Couple new guys.

I believe Terri or Fe or Jenea or someone referred to these ones as Satin:
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05505.jpg

And I just love this guy and his long hair. He looks so much bigger than he really is. We named him Ken b/c he's all fur.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05507.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05511.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05515.jpg

[Kagome100]

Couple new guys.

I believe Terri or Fe or Jenea or someone referred to these ones as Satin:
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05505.jpg

And I just love this guy and his long hair. He looks so much bigger than he really is. We named him Ken b/c he's all fur.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05507.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05511.jpg
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee297/RKB1985/DSC05515.jpg



Ya the first one is satin for sure, a very cute one at that.

[CornCrazy]

I agree...that 1st one is a piebald, broken marked satin. I am not sure what it's color would be considered, though. I think it might be considered as fawn? It is very pretty! I love the sheen on the satins!

I've got some more gorgeous merles! If I ever make it up that way, I'll have to bring some with me. I'm planning on going to Tinley this year, so let me know if you want me to bring any mice along! I think they will make it OK as long as we have plenty of food and water for them.

[RKB1985]

I agree...that 1st one is a piebald, broken marked satin. I am not sure what it's color would be considered, though. I think it might be considered as fawn? It is very pretty! I love the sheen on the satins!

I've got some more gorgeous merles! If I ever make it up that way, I'll have to bring some with me. I'm planning on going to Tinley this year, so let me know if you want me to bring any mice along! I think they will make it OK as long as we have plenty of food and water for them.

Sounds like a plan. I'll do an inventory before and bring what you want too.

I didn't mean to imply the second guy was a satin, he's a rodent Yeti.

[CornCrazy]

Sounds like a plan. I'll do an inventory before and bring what you want too.

I didn't mean to imply the second guy was a satin, he's a rodent Yeti.I knew what you meant...LOL And Ken is a perfect name for the 2nd little guy!

I have some great mice, so I'll surprise you with some cool ones!

[RKB1985]

Do the Yeti mice have a name (ie Satin, Rex)?

Also I'm assuming both the Satin and Yeti are recessive?

[CornCrazy]

Do the Yeti mice have a name (ie Satin, Rex)?

Also I'm assuming both the Satin and Yeti are recessive?It may just be a long-haired mouse. I am not sure if they have a more technical name or not. His hair seems to be much longer than my rex's. The hair on the rex's gets much less wavy as they mature, but is is still pretty short.

And I think they are both recessive.

[kenster]

I'll admit Ken is a way cooler name for a mouse than Muffin and Marshmellow:icon_mrgreen:

[CornCrazy]

I thought I'd post a picture of my favorite mouse! She's SO cute!
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f67/CornCrazy/Mice/Myfavoritemouse.jpg

[FloridaHogs]

She is a cutie!