These are the lavenders

[kare]

comparing lavender to albino california kings, notice the shades of lavender?
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w267/kareo/Colubrids/lavenderandalbino.jpg
#2 female aberrant lav
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w267/kareo/Colubrids/2Lavenderfemalefromhomolav.jpg
#3 female aberrant lav
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w267/kareo/Colubrids/3Lavenderfemalefromhomo.jpg
#4 female aberrant lav
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w267/kareo/Colubrids/4Lavenderfemalefromhettohet.jpg
#5 male aberrant lav
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w267/kareo/Colubrids/5Lavendermalefromhomo.jpg
#6 male striped aberrant (head and tail breaks, patterned belly)
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w267/kareo/Colubrids/6Lavendermalefromhomo.jpg
stripe aberrant male belly
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w267/kareo/Colubrids/stripelavenderbelly.jpg

These are what are left from last year that aren't on hold. There are plenty of extremely aberrant het lavenders, too. We expect more babies from two nice females this year.

[AneesasMuse]

I like #3 female!! :D They're all really cool lookin' !

[kare]

thanks, Aminah
They sure are ready to move. It was in the 50's today so the room they are in warmed up a bit more (ambient) and they were so active that I swear they know that spring is almost here. LOL.
Hopefully the 2 girls we have breeding will give us some good clean clutches this year. I'd love some clean banded and stripes for the fall shows.

[cougardude]

vary nice lookng i like them alot :icon_pidu:

[FloridaHogs]

Very pretty! So what "phase" are those, or do phases matter when you get into the color morphs?

[kare]

Very pretty! So what "phase" are those, or do phases matter when you get into the color morphs?
Lavenders don't have a phase,that I know of, besides ruby-eyed or blue-eyed. Hopefully, people won't muddy up the lines by mating them with albinos, etc. I would guess that coastal would be the phase, if that is appropriate, as yellow is definitely coastal...pure white is desert and the ivory/cream is usually someone who crossed desert with a coastal. (Scott straightened me out on the terms.) I'm trying to get Scott to join the forum. Then you can get the info from someone who really knows, instead of me - I seem to be suffering from CRS, lately.

[kare]

Oh, and technically, lavenders are just a nice pretty name for hypomelanistic. So these are "just" hypomelanistic California kingsnakes. LOL. They are pretty, I just wish they didn't poop so much.:eusa_wall: :noidea:

[JenHarrison]

I think I get the phase thing now. The guy I got today has pure white striping (unless it's a very whitish ivory), but his base color isn't black, but isn't chocolate -- a mix of both. The little female that came with him is pure yellow and chocolate though -- just not as clean as I'd hoped. The funniest thing is that I can't believe something as big as that male started out as something as small as that female. Kingsnake babies are so tiny!

[sputnik]

Those are nice, real nice!

[kare]

I think I get the phase thing now. The guy I got today has pure white striping (unless it's a very whitish ivory), but his base color isn't black, but isn't chocolate -- a mix of both. The little female that came with him is pure yellow and chocolate though -- just not as clean as I'd hoped. The funniest thing is that I can't believe something as big as that male started out as something as small as that female. Kingsnake babies are so tiny!

You want to see tiny?! You should see the variable kingsnakes when they hatch out. About as small as baby western hognose. I start to pull day old pinks out of the breeding cages when those eggs are laid and hopefully, I'll have enough to last them til they grow big enough to have regular pinks.

[JenHarrison]

OK, now here's my confusion. This one is being sold as a regular lavendar, and considering its looks, I would agree:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=59&de=581238

But then these are the ruby-eyed lavendars, which look like yours, and which apparently are a cross between albino and regular lavendar to get them:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=59&de=581220

So are yours the albino x lavendar kind?

Then there's this "lavendar", which looks like a regular chocolate one to me, not a lavendar:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=59&de=579467

Then there's this "hypo" which looks like just another locale chocolate one again:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=59&de=553835

This is what keeps screwing me up. :moodbanghead: :shocked:

[Carpet]

loveeeee #4. i want one! haha
awesome kings :icon_pidu:

[kare]

OK, now here's my confusion. This one is being sold as a regular lavendar, and considering its looks, I would agree:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=59&de=581238

But then these are the ruby-eyed lavendars, which look like yours, and which apparently are a cross between albino and regular lavendar to get them:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=59&de=581220

So are yours the albino x lavendar kind?

Then there's this "lavendar", which looks like a regular chocolate one to me, not a lavendar:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=59&de=579467

Then there's this "hypo" which looks like just another locale chocolate one again:

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=59&de=553835

This is what keeps screwing me up. :moodbanghead: :shocked:

Man, that is confusing! I'm not sure on the background for the ruby-eyes. I'll have to get Scott to get on here to give some history on the critters. I do know that we've had the lavender pair for several years and our critters are from either het to homozygous or homozygous to homozygous. When Scott bought the lavender pair, the het sister of the male was thrown in at a great discount.
That one "hypo" looks more chocolate or like a het hypo(het lavender) (they have a different coloration to the normals, kinda subtle, but noticable side by side)

[FloridaHogs]

Hey Kare, what is the best way to sex one the size of mine? (16g 14") When I pop it, I see two little red nubs, and when I prob I get a 5 scale count. He is really small to prob, so I am being extra careful, but it may be to old to pop well.....now I am not sure if it is male or female....

[kare]

Scott says he prefers popping. When he does it, it looks like he's bending them almost 45º.....not at all like the "squeezing toothpaste" technique I use for the pythons. And still he gets some that are questionable. Comparing tails when they're a little bigger helps, too. Maybe the other Scott "Sputnik" can give some advice?!?

[Cool Evil Liz]

Sweettttttttt I like the striper

[RKB1985]

That male striped aberrant (#6) is awesome..

[Otter_23]

From my experience if you are getting little red nubs it is most likely a male that you just are popping out all the way, but I could be wrong.

[sputnik]

Scott says he prefers popping. When he does it, it looks like he's bending them almost 45º.....not at all like the "squeezing toothpaste" technique I use for the pythons. And still he gets some that are questionable. Comparing tails when they're a little bigger helps, too. Maybe the other Scott "Sputnik" can give some advice?!?


I've only ever popped kings and corns, and not many kings.... so my advice is limited to that.

[markface]

those are all sweet looking critters !

[wilomn]

These are two pics of actual rubyeye albino calkings.

About 20 years ago, in what is now a field of condominiums near San Diego, two different phases of rubyeye albino calkings were found by two different guy, John Ruiz and Jack Dyer.

Ruiz's had a lighter colour than Dyer's. Both had the ruby red pupils and both were much darker than the typical albino calking. Both strains produced the blue iris.

Lately a lot of people have been calling anything with a hint of lavender colour to it a lavender calking. Personally, I think it's just for sales.

If the snake does not have genetics that trace back to one of the two originals, they aren't lavenders.

Dyer's are much darker, though not as dark as the one pictured in the ad jen linked. Dyer's also all have the rubyred pupil.

I have one Dyer that I don't have a pic of. The two pictured are Ruiz strain. I've had them since 88 and I got them from Ruiz himself.

I have talked to both men about these snakes and what is posted above is what I have concluded.

[wilomn]

Pics didn't take, let's try again.

[kare]

Thanks, Wes. I knew someone would have a clue as to the history.

[JenHarrison]

So the lavendars are a version of albino (I'm thinking T+ like in caramel albino ball pythons)? Then those dark ones people are claiming are lavendar are probably hypo, right? Are the blue-eyed blondes versions of lavendar or something else entirely?

This king stuff confuses me. The guy I bought my striped boy from explained it pretty well when we chatted on the phone, but there are so many variations. I just want to make sure I get what I'm paying for.

[wilomn]

I've thought about T positive as well and am not sure. Many of them do have what appears to be a spot of black in the pupil, but the pupil is so dark, it's hard to tell.

There has also been a tremendous amount of interbreeding with pattern morphs. I don't think they're hypomelanistic as there is NO brown or black on any that I've seen that could be traced back to Dyer or Ruiz. In all the years I've produced them the hets have always looked like normals.

I did breed a rubyeye albino to a regular albino and got two babies that were purple and yellow. Unfortunately I had a brilliant "partner" er thief, who misplaced them. I've tried that combo again but never gotten the purple those two had. They were like grapes and lemons as far as colour.

I may try it again this year. I've got one female albino, just a normal, whose bloodline I've had since the late 80s. I'm hoping that she was related to the one that produced the purple and yellow babies. I know that one of my rubyeye males is of that same line. I had a LOT more calkings back then. I'm down to about 40 now; probably had closer to 100 back then.

[kare]

Sounds like a fantastic looking critter, Wes. I hope you can duplicate them. We don't have enough adult keepers, yet, to cross lavender with the reg. albinos, but I'd love to see some pics if you hit again!

[JenHarrison]

All that did was make me want to get into them even more. LOL!

I appreciate the help, thanks!

[Tama]

Hey Kare missed this somehow....

Sweettttttttt I like the striper

My sentiments exactly.:becky:

[JenHarrison]

Wes, would you have a moment to chat on the phone or online sometime about all this? I got another lame response from someone today that basically said they've stopped trying to explain the mis-labeling to people and can't help me.